I've gotten into an interesting conversation with some circular reasoning professionals HERE.
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Here God the Father and God the Son spoke with Joseph Smith.
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The Sacred Grove
Here God the Father and God the Son spoke with Joseph Smith.
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12 comments:
The link doesn't work!
dan,
I don't know why it isn't working for you. It's working for me right now for me. Here is the actual address: http://www.jackhammr.org/2008/07/25/witnessing-to-mormons-a-starting-point/
I hope it works for you.
Wow. I never thought that it would come down to mathematics. I guess I have to believe in the Bible now! No room for faith anymore folks.
This reminds me of my mission down in the Bible Belt. They think with all their heart, they are being logical. Truth is, you can't force people to see reason. I have tried, but it is a waste of time trying to force people. We just declare and then the ball is in their court.
But regardless, I will never believe a mathematical proof of God unless it at least incorporates vector calculus and differentials.
I just posted a reply on the mormonapologetics board that I think you'll like.
Rob Watson
http://americantestament.blogspot.com
At this point I'm not sure whether I'll even bother with continuing the conversation. I have basically been told about 5 times that the Bible is true because it is..... so, therefore...... They're right and we're wrong.
Dang, how come I never saw that before!
If I thought it would do any good, I would ask them how that is working for them - and then ask them why they aren't Catholic, or why there are so many disagreeing churches if just knowing "it is because it is" is good enough.
But the truth is, they have unwittingly turned the Holy Bible into an idol, much as the Pharisees did to Moses and the Prophets. They cling to the Bible because they have no other source of authority. If they acknowledge the least uncertainty, the whole house of cards comes down.
Of course, then I would ask them why they have removed books from the Bible... like the apocrypha, pseudopigrapha, early Christian writings, etc... all missing.
Of course, they will refuse to see because they don't like what it tells them.
To protestants/evangelicals, the Bible fell out of the sky one day, complete as it stands, perfect in form and message, without a jot or tittle removed from it.
There are facts, and then there is fantasy.
But one can still believe the Bible without accepting every word as exact, unaltered truth. That's why God gave us the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit (particularly discernment) so that we could see past human agendas and detect truth.
zen,
I like your comment on the Bible being the only source of authority they have. That's very true. We believe, however, that the ultimate source of authority is GOD and not a book written by dead prophets. Therefore, while we value scriptures, we value most of all the living God and revelation from Him.
Rob,
I do sometimes wonder if some protestants believe the Bible was lowered from heaven on a golden string.
Hey guys,
It is so hard to get someone to pray to Heavenly Father.. I am currently the one exhorting them to pray to Father. The impression I get is that they don't believe in a living God.
talk to you later.. sometime,
Peter
Peter,
"We don't need for God to give us revelation. We have our interpretations of the Bible and it's true! Why is it true? Because it is!"
That sure seems like what they're saying to me.
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