Sunday, February 3, 2008

Unscriptural Calvinism

I've made a scriptural list before on Biblical References to Deification. I made one today on Calvinism. I think this scriptural list shows the inconsistency of the Calvinist doctrines of total depravity, unlimited election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and the perseverance of the saints. LDS reject all of these concepts.


T-U-L-I-P

Total Depravity (Original Sin)

Sin inherited from parents: Deut. 1:34-39; Ezek. 18:19-20; Isa 7:15-16; Jer 19:2-6; Matt. 18:1-3; 19:13-14
Non-saved incapable choosing or doing good: Deut.11:26-28; 30:15-20; Josh. 24:15; Acts 10:1-4, 22 (cf 11:14); Rom. 2:14-16

Unconditional Election (Predestination of Individuals)
Acts 10:34; Rom 2:11-12; 1 Pet. 1:17; Tit 2:11; 1 Ti 2:3-4; 2 Peter 3:9

Limited Atonement (Jesus died only for the elect)

Luke 19:10; John 1:29; 3:16; Romans 1:16; 2 Corinthians 5:14-15; 1 Timothy 2:6; Hebrews 2:9; 1 John 2:1-2

Irresistible Grace (No choice in one's salvation)
Matt. 11:28; Acts 6:10; 7:51-55; Revelation 22:17; John 12:32 (cf. John 6:44 & 2 Nephi. 26:24-28, 33)

Perseverance of the Saints (Once saved always saved)
Ezek 3:20; 18:24-26; Matt. 7:21-23; Luke 8:13; 9:62; 12:41-48; John 15:1-7; 1 Cor. 8:11; Gal. 5:1-4, 13; Col. 1:21-23; 1 Ti 1:18-20; 4:1; 5:8; Heb. 3:12; 4:1-2,11; 6:4-8; 10:26-31; 10:38-39; James 5:19-20; 1 Pet. 5:8-10; 2 Pet. 2:1,15,20-22; 3:17; Rev 2:4-5; 3:5,16-17

I invite you to take a look at these scriptures if you're interested in the topic. It shouldn't take more than about 45 minutes.

17 comments:

Peter said...

Hey, you've got a good blog. I stop by and read often. Keep up the good work.

I am also going to ask or suggest that when you insert scripture references if you could please create a link to say the LDS scriptures like so

LDS Scriptures but then being even more specific to have one click references so if you were linking to John 3:16 you could create a link to John 3:16.

If you are interested and would need some help to know the html code just ask :)

Peter

chad said...

Andrew

This is a good post however this:

"Unlimited Election (Predestination of Individuals)"

Should read "Unconditional Election" and in Calvinist (Augustinian) thought God elects based on His grace not on the worth of the person - hence a person being predestined (elected) for salvation was chosen by grace alone and not because of something they have done or that God knew they would do...etc. vice versa for those predestined for damnation...harsh doctrines...

Andrew Miller said...

Chad, thanks, I will correct it.

Peter, I normally try to do that it just takes so darn much time :)

chad said...

In my Bible reading this morning I came across this passage

1 John 2:2-3 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."

That presents in my view two challenges to Calvinist thinking - first the atonement covers not only the believers sins bu rather those of the whole world...and second we know Him by obeying His commandments...direct challenges to limited atonement and to irresistable grace (Sola Gartia as well)...

Andrew Miller said...

Great verse, chad! I think you hit the nail on the head. There are all sorts of problems with Calvinism and the Bible

Peter said...

Yeah, I understand, I'm just lazy and if I can click to see the scriptures it is easier and quicker then opening my Bible or BoM ;)

Andrew Miller said...

I agree, Peter. This time, however, maybe you could be out going and I can be lazy ;) Next time I'll do better. Thanks for coming by!

Andrew Miller said...

Peter, just for you, I'm going back through and adding links ;) Please read the scriptures and let me know what you think.

Peter said...

Your an absolute champ :D BTW, I am about halfway through your discussion with the Pastor. Interesting stuff but from what I am reading I don't think it is going anywhere. I spose I will see at the end.

Thanks mate,

Peter

Andrew Miller said...

Peter,
Ultimately the Pastor says "hey, this is going no where, so let's quit" and I said "okie dokie." I don't think there was changing his mind on anything.

Peter said...

Well, belief is a hard thing for some. It is especially hard when they believe that they have the truth. Of course this works for us as well, in the reverse case.

The problem that we face is when each respective party believes that they have all the right information, that simply because they have deduced it from the Bible it somehow makes it right. While we, and many others, believe that we have the right and full Gospel in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints others believe that it is found in their church. I have been trying to find a way to build the bridge that leads to them knowing but it eludes me. I don't think that there is a way for us to convince someone to sincerely desire to know. I just believe that some people are more in tune. Like myself, some just know that the Bible isn't all of God's words and that it isn't complete. I had amazing experiences that I attribute to my mind being open when I read the Bible, that I sincerely desired to know the truth and to do His will. I was given knowledge that eventually led me to God's church. I wasn't only given the knowledge that the Bible is true, I was also given knowledge that Jesus is the Christ and also doctrine that would later let me know when I had found the right church.
Now, it is said that God gives to each a portion of His truth, to see what they will do with it. If this is the case then there is a possibility that for each person a different church can be what they need at the time. However if everyone did bring what truth they had received into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints they would have more truth added to them.

chad said...

What then is the position is there is one of the LDS church on those who are members of non-Christian religions?

Does Islam have a portion of God's truth?

I know how I would answer this personally but I wonder how the church answers it.

Andrew Miller said...

Chad,

Great question. Here's what our official documents say.

An official statement from the First Presidency:

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. … We believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation” (“Statement of the First Presidency regarding God’s Love for All Mankind,” 15 Feb. 1978).

The Book of Mormon:

God "is mindful of every people, whatsoever land they may be in...and his bowels of mercy are over all the earth" (Alma 26:37; also I Nephi 1:14).

"He inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness...black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile" (2 Nephi 26:33).

"I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth" (2 Nephi 29:7).

"The Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have" (Alma 29:8).

Andrew Miller said...

One more:

"We recognize the good in all churches. We recognize the value of religion generally. We say to everyone: live the teachings which you have received from your church. We invite you to come and learn from us, to see if we can add to those teachings and enhance your life and your understanding of things sacred and divine."(President Gordon B. Hinckley, London News Service 8/28/1995.)

Andrew Miller said...

Peter,

I think the key for us and for all people is to have an open mind and realize that no individual or church knows ALL truth. I'm not afraid to look at what others believe and to try to learn from them. I'm confident that the LDS Church is Christ's true church and that we have the fullness of the gospel and the priesthood necessary to perform saving ordinances, but I don't think that you or I or anyone knows everything. Unfortunately, some Bible thumping people out there think they do know everything.

chad said...

Andrew

Those are very pleasant words from the first presidency about other faiths.

I find that a true mark of consideration for others who do not share the views of the LDS church and quite frankly the world would be a better place if more religionists felt that way...

It's like saying I know that God has given us truth - but that's not to say God hasn't also given truth(s) to others as well

Andrew Miller said...

I think part of the reason you don't generally see or hear LDS attacking others' faiths or beliefs directly is because of this underlying philosophy. In that, we're much different than the SBC or others who spend much time and effort in educating people about the "evils" of Mormonism. (Just go to their official website and search "mormon").